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well that was interesting - Tim Lieder [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Tim Lieder

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well that was interesting [Jun. 3rd, 2014|12:15 am]
Tim Lieder
I have a friend and she's a disaster. She's the kind of person who once asked me what it meant when a guy tells a woman "never talk to me again" and I was so tempted to say "it means he is totally into you" but even I'm not that much of an asshole. A few weeks back, I did have an interesting talk with her where we realized that we have many of the same issues - a propensity for wanting drama, upbringing that normalized crazy shit, etc. - the age-old problem of dating what we think we deserve. Only she was with abusive assholes - one of whom is married and still hitting on her - and well, it's unfair to say, but she's kind of the person that I compare myself to when I'm feeling out of sorts.

Now one should never do that. One should understand that everyone has their struggles and that the suffering of one's friends is a bad thing. And when one's friends are happy, one should be happy for them - even if they are currently on a "omg aren't they just the cutest couple and isn't that totally precious" kick.

But yeah, this friend is a mess. She's nice, but she's a mess.

Today she was in Starbucks and she asked me why I wouldn't want to date her. I don't know why this comes up. Maybe she's trying not to get sucked into the drama that is the ex-boyfriend insanity and maybe she's serious. After I gave the accepted answer (she's not frum) she pressed me until I gave the true answer which is that she is too messed up for me.

And she got insulted. I was rather surprised because that seems to be the thing that she talks about the most. The boyfriends that have attacked her, the boyfriends that she has attacked, the weird jealousies and the losers that have rejected her. It's like she's practically advertising that she has issues and I can relate - I do the same thing - but she got insulted and told me that I was rude. I tried to apologize, but there was really nothing to apologize about since I meant it. I could not date her because she is messed up emotionally. I don't know why she considers that rude but after some interrogation - yes I meant it - she walked out and stayed outside.

But not before she said that she was better looking than the "ugly bitches" in the Orthodox community. I'm not really sure why that was a point in her favor or why she considered that a point in her favor. Pretty much proved what I said (and not just because that self-evaluation is a trifle unrealistic).

I waited until she left to go. But I can't say that I feel guilty about it. I guess because I don't really see "you're too messed up to date" as an insult. It's a fact. For years, I was too messed up to date - too obsessive and too broken and too prone to "solving" my issues through dumb means - religiosity, hopeless crushes, terrible short stories - and I don't know if I would have had a problem with being rejected on the basis of "you're too fucked up".

I do know that I am sick of drama. I had enough of that with Chevi. I really can't hate Chevi for her abusive behavior because I knew that she was trouble but she was exciting and I told myself all those lies that you tell yourself when you get involved with an emotionally disturbed person (I can change her!) and I knew I was lying but I didn't care (I love PASSION!!!) and it wasn't like I came up with the rule "avoid anyone who is reading and dogearing a book entitled Anger: The Inner Teacher" after I dated her. I knew that it was a warning sign.

But the main reason why I can't hate Chevi is because she finally broke me of my disdain for emotionally supportive women who are drama-free. (a side-note - a woman found me over frumster and friended me on FB and when I talked to her she read my entries about Chevi as signs that I wasn't over her - because "how the hell could I have dealt with that kind of abuse?" is totally pining away) And don't get me wrong, when I think of her, I can only feel sorry for the poor bastard that married her (with a slim hope that she dealt with her issues) but it finally got me to the point where I can say "No. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone more messed up than myself"

Bummer that it hurt someone's feelings, but I meant it without rancor or disdain.

[User Picture]From: chaos_by_design
2014-06-04 01:51 am (UTC)
Sure, it's not totally rational, but I can see why your friend was insulted. Nobody wants to be told they're too messed up for anything.
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[User Picture]From: marlowe1
2014-06-08 05:16 pm (UTC)
True. But unlike "you stink and your goals are completely incompatible with mine" it's something that CAN be changed over time with work.
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[User Picture]From: the_lucky_nun
2014-06-06 05:45 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you were truthful. Perhaps it will be a wake-up call and force her to examine the toxic patterns in her life. I have several male friends that complain to me about this type of person, and I've not been able to figure out why they seek out that same personality type over and over, unless they enjoy being the sane one (relatively) in the relationship. My advice to be forthright is usually met with "That would be mean!" Well, is it any meaner to let someone needlessly blunder on?
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[User Picture]From: marlowe1
2014-06-08 05:17 pm (UTC)
I know that I sought out the women that I thought I deserved. Which was either women who didn't want me (because I was a gaping wound of emotional neediness) or women that were emotionally abusive.

The advice is good, but it's hard to take. It means changing the patterns of behavior.
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